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  1. #1
    Akosua
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    Default Homosexuality and the Bible

    Ever get tired of people throwing Bible verses at you, and using religion as an excuse for condemning homosexuality? Well, this is something I came across many years ago, and I still laugh every time I read it.

    On her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

    =============

    Dear Dr. Laura:

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

    1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

    7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

    Your adoring fan.

    James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus Dept. of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

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    Akosua
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    Any thoughts on this?

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    Super Moderator Pope Bitterz D'Alomo's Avatar
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    Valid points made if you ask me.Though James M. Kauffman adds a twist of humor,I dare ask, is God's word indeed infallibe ?

    have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
    hmm scratching my head
    Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow. ~Aesop

    Ignorance can be educated,drunkenness sobered,craziness medicated but there is no cure for STUPIDITY


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    Moderator Q' lypse's Avatar
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    I was about to post this here actually.

    I've been saying it over and over again.... People use the bible as an excuse to unleash their hatred for something they deem unclean or immoral.
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

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    Akosua
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pope Bitterz D'Alomo View Post
    Valid points made if you ask me.Though James M. Kauffman adds a twist of humor,I dare ask, is God's word indeed infallibe ?

    hmm scratching my head
    A lot of unanswered questions...

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    Akosua
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q' lypse View Post
    I was about to post this here actually.

    I've been saying it over and over again.... People use the bible as an excuse to unleash their hatred for something they deem unclean or immoral.

    The question os God's existence and our spirituality continues to baffle a lot of people.

    As I said, SO many questions and not really that many answers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akosua View Post
    The question os God's existence and our spirituality continues to baffle a lot of people.

    As I said, SO many questions and not really that many answers
    the answers lie within us all, its not somewhere else. When Jesus said, I am the way the TRUTH and life, he was talking about himself, not that he was better than anyone else but that he was a pointer, telling everyone you can say the same thing about yourself. You are the TRUTH, the way and the LIFE! The very being that you are is TRUTH, your only way to connect to THE ALL (GOD, SOURCE) is through you only, not through some holy book(s) or religion, and lastly YOU ARE LIFE!

    But mysteriously the only that will show MAN truth is the very thing they avoid, that is, themselves! They will rather look else where which will go on and on forver and we will never be satisfied, NEVER!
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

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    Akosua
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q' lypse View Post
    the answers lie within us all, its not somewhere else. When Jesus said, I am the way the TRUTH and life, he was talking about himself, not that he was better than anyone else but that he was a pointer, telling everyone you can say the same thing about yourself. You are the TRUTH, the way and the LIFE! The very being that you are is TRUTH, your only way to connect to THE ALL (GOD, SOURCE) is through you only, not through some holy book(s) or religion, and lastly YOU ARE LIFE!

    But mysteriously the only that will show MAN truth is the very thing they avoid, that is, themselves! They will rather look else where which will go on and on forver and we will never be satisfied, NEVER!

    That is another way to view things, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akosua View Post
    That is another way to view things, I guess.
    Akos, what other way will there be?
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

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    Quote Originally Posted by Q' lypse View Post
    the answers lie within us all, its not somewhere else. When Jesus said, I am the way the TRUTH and life, he was talking about himself, not that he was better than anyone else but that he was a pointer, telling everyone you can say the same thing about yourself. You are the TRUTH, the way and the LIFE! The very being that you are is TRUTH, your only way to connect to THE ALL (GOD, SOURCE) is through you only, not through some holy book(s) or religion, and lastly YOU ARE LIFE!

    But mysteriously the only that will show MAN truth is the very thing they avoid, that is, themselves! They will rather look else where which will go on and on forver and we will never be satisfied, NEVER!
    No wonder Obinim and his cohorts are "milking" them .
    Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow. ~Aesop

    Ignorance can be educated,drunkenness sobered,craziness medicated but there is no cure for STUPIDITY


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    Akosua
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q' lypse View Post
    Akos, what other way will there be?
    I don't knw the answer to that. What i mean is, other people might have a different perspective to it than you do, thats all...

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    I do not approve of homosexuality but at the same time vehemently abhor the hypocrisy in the Christian Religion. As a matter of thought, most straight men are guilty of the gay bug anyway. You tell me if straight men and pastors who shout kwasia to the gay man are not equally guilty themselves, when they turn around and give it to their women in the ass(buttside) . You tell me if that's not gay. I am sure the psychologists will have a term for it.. subconscious gay men or something.

    I am not trying to be blasphemous (God Forgive me) but you could also argue that Jesus may have been gay. He never had a relationship or married (according to the Bible) and always had guys around him. who knows what may have happened in the bushes..

    So take the speck out of your own eyes first before.......
    Agent Provocateur

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akosua View Post
    I don't knw the answer to that. What i mean is, other people might have a different perspective to it than you do, thats all...
    Actually they choke (when it comes to it) from most of the debates I've had not only this forum but others as well. Because they know they haven't done any self observations to know. Its a scary thing, they find it scary to go within themselves to find out what lies there.
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pope Bitterz D'Alomo View Post
    No wonder Obinim and his cohorts are "milking" them .
    Not just him, check out the American evangelists. The Benny Hinns and the rest. If one finds the truth within oneself and nowhere else, what will happen to their evangelical empires? A total collapse. But people are too scared and too dumb to search within themselves. Usually when someone says Jesus is the Truth, I ask them if Jesus is the Truth, what are they (what are you)? .............Blank.......... An old classmate of mine on fb is now a pastor, when I asked him this question after he put that line on his status update, he said, he's spreading the message, the good news or gospel. I said that doesn't tell me who he is, he is telling me what he's doing....what he does... Then there was silence... You see, even pastors or preachers don't know themselves, now how the hell will their 'flock' know a thing about themselves? Blind leading the blind....
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Q' lypse View Post
    Not just him, check out the American evangelists. The Benny Hinns and the rest. If one finds the truth within oneself and nowhere else, what will happen to their evangelical empires? A total collapse. But people are too scared and too dumb to search within themselves. Usually when someone says Jesus is the Truth, I ask them if Jesus is the Truth, what are they (what are you)? .............Blank.......... An old classmate of mine on fb is now a pastor, when I asked him this question after he put that line on his status update, he said, he's spreading the message, the good news or gospel. I said that doesn't tell me who he is, he is telling me what he's doing....what he does... Then there was silence... You see, even pastors or preachers don't know themselves, now how the hell will their 'flock' know a thing about themselves? Blind leading the blind....
    u no the mince words koraa kwamena kwaku peter qlypse ... lolol ...... true say though .... shifting from gathering information outside to gathering information from within na very important ---- paa ...... i am currently aware that i have to sooner or later shift to gathering information within and im working on ..... but many are not even aware of a within .... let alone understand within ........ u know the funny thing i heard as an explanation of the quote in the bible where jesus said "the kingdom of heaven is within" ....... jesus was talking in parables when he said that ..... lololololol so i asked ..... wat does the so called parable -"the kingdom of heaven is in you" mean then ....... that question was met with immediate and swift silence .... lololol ....

    anyways
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    I do not approve of homosexuality but at the same time vehemently abhor the hypocrisy in the Christian Religion. As a matter of thought, most straight men are guilty of the gay bug anyway. You tell me if straight men and pastors who shout kwasia to the gay man are not equally guilty themselves, when they turn around and give it to their women in the ass(buttside) . You tell me if that's not gay. I am sure the psychologists will have a term for it.. subconscious gay men or something.
    Remember Ted Haggard? One of the most potent homophobic pastors in the States who was exposed by some male prostitutes? I watched his interview on Oprah and all I could feel was have compassion for the man. I felt sorry for him. After he admitted having sex with men (although he was married and still married with children), his church threw him out of the church. So much for Jesus love. During the interview he was selling insurance from door to door. I swear I could have cried for the man.

    Then there is that black preacher with a mega church in Atlanta who is so vile when it comes to anti gay speeches that some of the country's leaders stay the hell away from him. It turned out nigga works out, took some bathroom photos of himself flexing his muscles to some teenage boys who attend his church. Sh*t was posted all over the internet. Nigga is pleading not guilty. Church members in full support... Still waiting trial for indecency or whatever the charges are, under aged kids so so and so.. They go against the very thing they are. It makes you wonder...
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quophi Aletse View Post
    u no the mince words koraa kwamena kwaku peter qlypse ... lolol ...... true say though .... shifting from gathering information outside to gathering information from within na very important ---- paa ...... i am currently aware that i have to sooner or later shift to gathering information within and im working on ..... but many are not even aware of a within .... let alone understand within ........ u know the funny thing i heard as an explanation of the quote in the bible where jesus said "the kingdom of heaven is within" ....... jesus was talking in parables when he said that ..... lololololol so i asked ..... wat does the so called parable -"the kingdom of heaven is in you" mean then ....... that question was met with immediate and swift silence .... lololol ....

    anyways
    ahh. Full stop. No I don't mince my words, sometimes I tell it as it is. If you catch me on a bad day, woe to you (old testament god voice). lol
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akosua View Post
    Ever get tired of people throwing Bible verses at you, and using religion as an excuse for condemning homosexuality? Well, this is something I came across many years ago, and I still laugh every time I read it.

    On her radio show, Dr Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura, penned by a US resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

    =============

    Dear Dr. Laura:

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate.

    I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

    1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

    2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

    4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

    6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

    7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- room here?

    8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

    9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

    10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

    I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

    Your adoring fan.

    James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus Dept. of Curriculum, Instruction, and Special Education University of Virginia

    People ought to understand that the Bible never condone or promote slavery, but it has condemned it in the Old Testament. It is like a parent telling you that you can swear and behave reckless outside, but not under his/her roof. That is not to say that the parent is condoning your recklessness and swearing, but they are simply telling you it is not acceptable when you are in their presence (under their roof). They are drawing the line and God was doing the same thing.

    During the time of the Bible being written slavery was a mere way of living (a fact) amongst the people and God simply displayed his righteousness while they choose to continue to do what they were practicing as a norm but he restricted them from enslaving their fellow Israelites. Even before the Bible was written slavery was being practiced by the people as an economical revenue and social echelon.

    Persons were set a part with duties based on social or occupational titles. Technologies were not even in the makings so human beings were being used to get certain labor work done that was deemed necessary but dishonorable for certain ranks or class of people within society. It was never based on race. Persons were not capable of surviving or providing for their own families so they sold them with the intention that they will have food, shelter, and a longer life regardless of the labor require from their masters. Today they are much options if one runs out of resources or has a huge debt, but back then persons would willingly, like I said above, sell themselves as a payment for their debt. Others would use their skills in a place of opportunities as slaves to survive. Servitude was a legal sanction for criminal offenders, survival, economical revenues, and for some the only way to repay their debts to another.

    People have to understand that when man fell everything fell and men looked for ways to build a world pleasurable and comfortable for themselves. Slavery was a choice for people while others forced some to be enslaved like every human being who thinks only of their personal gains. God has absolutely NOTHING to do with slavery or enslaving anyone since it was man who took it as an economical revenue and trade. It is of recent persons have been capitalizing and demonizing slavery based on race, hatred, and sex while keeping it within the economical revenues but with much more hostilities as we saw in history with Jim Crow and others.

    And for those of you who are waiting to say how ignominious the Bible is--let it be known that the Bible recognizes the reality of slavery, mentioned it that the skeptics now have a chance to read and misunderstands it; through it all the Bible never promotes the practice of slavery and stands out on the principles of God. In fact, it was the application of biblical principles that ultimately led to the overthrow of slavery; and this is both in ancient Israel and in the prominent nations worldwide.

    We are all created by God with intrinsic equality regardless of our color, location, sex, lifestyle, and of course choices. Slavery was never meant for mankind and neither was hell, death, or the many horrible things we face. People ought to take a few steps back, quit confusing themselves with their minds running aimlessly, and look at the truth that is staring them straight in the face. God’s word is infallible, unchangeable, and righteous.

    When it comes to number two through ten: sarcasm is better than stupidity and the individual clearly has been submerging himself in stupidity and unquestionable cynicism. Well, I have a news flash for him: he is making a spectacle and a mockery of his own self through the silly shenanigans. When people do not have understanding and try to make materials that are superior to their understanding and intelligence nihility they have a rude awakening to reckon with.
    We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality. Einstein

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose". Elliot

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    “The best thing I have is the knife from Fatal Attraction. I hung it in my kitchen. It's my way of saying, Don't mess with me.”
    Glenn
    Great Spirits often encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds.
    Einstein

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    So Mac, in other words, we throw the slavery part away and keep the homophobic part alive today? Ok.
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

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    Homosexuality is not something I fancy as an individual and it is something I detest as a Christian. It sounds, look, and I am sure feels awkward for a man to stick his ----- into another man’s backdoor, suck on each other dicks, tongue kiss him, and come to say they tie the knot. It is also sickening when a woman does it and for those who enjoys it (I am not knocking you—I mean sometimes you cum whenever you see two goats doing it too who knows how sensitive you are) it is unfitting whether you admit it or not.

    Sex needs to be creative and it does not matter what two married heterosexuals do in their bedrooms—it cannot be classed with homosexuality.

    When a man discuss entering his wife from her backdoor there is absolutely no lewdness in that—and it is okay if some persons cannot do it or won’t do it. The difference is that the backdoor is of a woman and not of the same sex. Whatever a husband and a wife do in their bedroom is their own business, and it is undefiled on matrimonial bed (as long as there is no third party, same sex, or a pet). God created sex for married people and to all the adulterers and fornicators—they too are sinning so don’t be talking for homosexuals when you have your own sins as we all do. But the truth must be told. If anyone here likes men then do whatever, or if you like women likewise do whatever, I do not detest the individuals but the lifestyle. I detest adulterers and fornicators as well as liars etc. On top of my detesting these things they are not right to do. No-one is perfect, but do not pretend or try to justify your sins.

    Thank goodness my homosexual acquaintances do not mind (like that matters but I appreciate they don't have a problem with it) me telling it like it is--they are sweet friends and joke bodies.
    We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality. Einstein

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose". Elliot

    Character is higher than intellect. ~Emerson

    “The best thing I have is the knife from Fatal Attraction. I hung it in my kitchen. It's my way of saying, Don't mess with me.”
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    Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akosua View Post
    A lot of unanswered questions...



    A little advice--read your Bible, pray, and asks the Holy Spirit to reveal what is not clear to you and you will be surprise at how much your spiritual eyes will be open to God's Word.

    Those questions and cynicism that the professor wrote were all laws to govern the people of God in the Old Testament before grace was introduced as promised by God through His son Jesus Christ. Society has to be given rules, regulations, and possible penalties (I am sure forgiveness was given but the consequences thereof had to be done as well). A nation needs to be governed by the principles of the land and not their fellow neighbors' Laws or practices. The Law was given and it was expected for everyone to (priests and every single person) follow. However, those laws are all fulfilled since Jesus Christ came, died, and rose again for our sins. Grace is what we all live by and not laws. The Sabbath was simply a day of rest that God strictly forbid anyone to work or lift a finger since they have been working every other day but that one day of rest and worship. Uncleanness was viewed as any physical or spiritual blemishes, ailment, sexual impurity, feminine cycle be it her period or a pregnancy, injustice, or deception. However, there were directives for becoming clean again to dwell amongst fellow people. Moreover, these were all done based on wisdom, righteousness purposes, curbing any contagious viruses/diseases, and as a form of a disciplinary action.

    There is so much to the Old Testament that you would be amazed at and how much you will come to learn and understand after asking the Lord to open your spiritual eyes to see the truth that others are blind to due to their lack of faith/desire.

    Grace is not about the laws, but God's mercies and Him extending a way to reconnect with Him through--->Jesus Christ. The wages of sin is DEATH regardless of the types of sins we commit. That qualifies all of us to die two types of deaths.

    We are under grace, and while it was said that death was the ultimate punishment for some of the sins and abominations in the Old Testament Jesus has died for us all who have or will commit these sins and has been pardoned through the blood of Jesus Christ (we do not have to be put to death right away for our sins by any law and we will not be forever separated from God). However, everyone has to realize that salvation is a personal thing, and one cannot open a gift unless they accept it. Every individual has to accept salvation in a personal manner if it is going to have any bearings in his or her life. One has to sign his or her lottery ticket in order to reap the benefits of it; one has to say "I DO" before being pronounced husband and wife. One has to express one's love to another before he or she could know that you feel the same way they do. All of these examples have one thing in common: a step is required in order to obtain the benefits. Salvation is the same thing.

    We will not abandon our sinful habits right away, but we will be mindful of them as we develop a desire to no longer do the things we used to do, but do the things that pleases God. A man can be with his wife even if she is pregnant or just gave birth (comforting her, holding her, or even have sex if it is agreed upon by both), when she is having her monthly cycle, but it is clear that homosexuality is not allowed period. Lies are not allowed period, adultery, fornication, and all other sins are not allowed, but the penalty of death when one does it is fulfilled by Jesus. Which is why persons can be gays, fornicators, adulterers, liars, cheaters, thief, and all other sinful things and not be put to death the moment it is committed? However, it still does not make it right--they are still sinful, but God will judge us all at the coming of his son Jesus Christ. That is grace my dear, we have the freedom to live however we so please, make whatever decisions be it good or bad, without God striking us dead for our atrocities/sins. He is merciful, and he has given us the opportunity to live, but everything we do now we must give an account to Him for it--every vain words, action, and thoughts. OMG! People do not listen--but hey, God is coming soon and I will be judge as well as you whether you believe it or not.

    This is why we ought to live our lives unto Jesus and worship Him for he is worthy of our praises. God is worthy of the glory and honor. Man can do whatever they want to--but not as long as they would like to. God still holds our past, present, and future in his hands. He says when we shall be born, live, die, and rise. We are not the keepers of ourselves but God is the one who is the reason for us being here, have a universe, galaxies for scientists to mess around, He gave us will, life, breath, a career, jobs, family, food, He gave us all we have and ourselves. Without Him there could have been NO us or this world or any other thing in existence.

    Pick up your Bible and read it with an open mind--do not be a critique, or judgmental, ask questions, take notes, go back to them, and meditate. Do not let anyone think for you--you are perfectly capable of finding whatever it is you need to find out about yourself, God, and existence (life).

    There are two types of deaths. Please let me know what they are?

    We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality. Einstein

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose". Elliot

    Character is higher than intellect. ~Emerson

    “The best thing I have is the knife from Fatal Attraction. I hung it in my kitchen. It's my way of saying, Don't mess with me.”
    Glenn
    Great Spirits often encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds.
    Einstein

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    Bipolar Neo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ® Lady √ Macbeth © View Post
    People ought to understand that the Bible never condone or promote slavery, but it has condemned it in the Old Testament.
    BIBLE VERSES CONDONING SLAVERY

    Exodus 21:1-4 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

    Deuteronomy 15:12-18 "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the Lord thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."

    Exodus 21:7 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."

    Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

    Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

    Female captives are considered spoils of war.

    Deuteronomy 21:10-14 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

    Deuteronomy 20:14 "But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself"

    What more evidence do you need to be convinced that the Bible condones slavery Lady Mac?
    Agent Provocateur

  23. #23
    Cognoscenti ® Lady √ Macbeth ©'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    BIBLE VERSES CONDONING SLAVERY

    Exodus 21:1-4 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself."

    Deuteronomy 15:12-18 "And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty: Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the Lord thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him."

    Exodus 21:7 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do."

    Exodus 21:20-21 "And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money."

    Exodus 21:26-27 "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake."

    Female captives are considered spoils of war.

    Deuteronomy 21:10-14 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her."

    Deuteronomy 20:14 "But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself"

    What more evidence do you need to be convinced that the Bible condones slavery Lady Mac?

    And the operative word of all five quotes you posted is: “if” and NOT you shall enslave!

    If you get yourself in trouble, Neo, give me a call, if you should get yourself killed (God forbid) there is life after death, if you should…I am not telling you to do the inevitable or the possibilities be it good or bad, but in the event these are the instructions.

    God was ONLY giving the Israelites specific instructions on how to deal fairly with their slaves and how to free them. He forbids them to practice it with their fellow Israelites. Those scriptures are not proving that God condoned slavery but given instructions on how to treat them. And God dealt severely with ruthless slave owners, and they will be judge and has been judged.

    When it comes to conquering a nation’s enemy it is about defeat and victory. When you defeat your enemy you take whatever or do whatever fitting for your nation. A warrior knows no boundaries but exhaust every avenue of his enemies due to utter demolition of their territories/people if so decided. The nation of Israel is not just a place, but a nation that is consist of a realm of military force to protect its territories/people, and like every military force there are times when you just fight irrespective of lives that will be lost, there are times you spare and a time where you simply kill or capture.

    What is so twisted or even out of order to take possession of the remains of your enemy’s resources or people? I tell you if I were to be at war with someone who is all out to kill me (God forbid) and I should kill the person first leaving much useful resources then it is natural for me to either keep them or destroy them. Neo, you may defeat your enemies in a war and leave what you have needs for without taking anything. The difference is God dealt fairly and justly.

    The Bible does not reform society and their unjust way of life—it points to salvation from Genesis to Revelation. One need to first know how different slavery was back then compared to centuries ago and neither ones has God condoned. God condemns, and judges them accordingly. I give the Bible tongues, thumbs, and ---- up for addressing every issue irrespective of how some would accuse God of encourage or rewarding ill practices. That shows poise, charisma, confidence, strength, and balls to even expose the filth that was present—but God’s righteousness and discipline stands out through it all. People should think about that. God’s intention is to redeem all of creation and not only embodied spirits within a certain society. His approach brought about ultimate redemption that is available to all.

    Those quotes do not nearly come close in convincing me or anyone that God condoned slavery.
    We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality. Einstein

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose". Elliot

    Character is higher than intellect. ~Emerson

    “The best thing I have is the knife from Fatal Attraction. I hung it in my kitchen. It's my way of saying, Don't mess with me.”
    Glenn
    Great Spirits often encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds.
    Einstein

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    Bipolar neoxiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ® Lady √ Macbeth © View Post
    God was ONLY giving the Israelites specific instructions on how to deal fairly with their slaves and how to free them.
    Dictionary Reference

    con·done

    1.to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like).
    2.to give tacit approval to: eg. By his silence, he seemed to condone their behavior.

    Without a shred of doubt it is obvious from your own statement that God condoned slavery. I know you are a smart lady and not ignorant (I respect your standpoint), but your wilful ignorance here in the face of facts is unpardonable. Religion is not a bad thing. Religion offers hope for mankind and bring people together. It has its bad side but we cannot condemn religion in its totality. What we should condemn are religious fanaticism, delusional self-indulgence and myopic religiosity. As human beings we lose our identity and who we really are, if we can see the colour red and say it is black because of our faith.
    Agent Provocateur

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    Cognoscenti ® Lady √ Macbeth ©'s Avatar
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    I knew someone would have come in with the definition argument, which is why I refused to post the definition. But it still does not prove that God condoned slavery!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by neoxiang View Post
    Dictionary Reference

    con·done

    1.to disregard or overlook (something illegal, objectionable, or the like).
    2.to give tacit approval to: eg. By his silence, he seemed to condone their behavior.

    Without a shred of doubt it is obvious from your own statement that God condoned slavery. I know you are a smart lady and not ignorant (I respect your standpoint), but your wilful ignorance here in the face of facts is unpardonable. Religion is not a bad thing. Religion offers hope for mankind and bring people together. It has its bad side but we cannot condemn religion its totality. What we should condemn is religious fanaticism, delusional self-indulgence and myopic religiosity. As human beings we lose our identity and who we really are, if we can see the colour red and say it is black because of our faith.


    Encarta College Dictionary

    Condone- To regard something that is considered immoral or wrong in a tolerant way, without critizing it or feeling strongly about it

    Merriam Dictionary

    con·done verb \kən-ˈdōn\
    con·donedcon·don·ing

    Definition of CONDONE

    transitive verb
    : to regard or treat (something bad or blameworthy) as acceptable, forgivable, or harmless <a government accused of condoning racism> <condone corruption in politics>
    — con·don·able \-ˈdō-nə-bəl\ adjective
    — con·don·er noun
    See condone defined for English-language learners »
    See condone defined for kids »

    Examples of CONDONE
    a government that has been accused of condoning racism
    <he is too quick to condone his friend's faults>
    “I don't condone violence, and I think ‘gangsta rap’ should be outlawed,” says [designer Tommy] Hilfiger … —Joshua Levine, Forbes, 21 Apr. 1997
    Without waiting for Momma's thanks, he rode out of the yard, sure that things were as they should be and that he was a gentle squire, saving those deserving serfs from the laws of the land, which he condoned. —Maya Angelou, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, 1969

    And then she told him all—told him the truth word by word, without attempting to shield herself or condone her error. —Edgar Rice Burroughs, Tarzan of the Apes, 1912
    [+]more


    if   /ɪf/ Show Spelled[if] Show IPA
    conjunction

    1. in case that; granting or supposing that; on condition that: Sing if you want to. Stay indoors if it rains. I'll go if you do.
    2. even though: an enthusiastic if small audience.
    3. whether: He asked if I knew Spanish.
    4. (used to introduce an exclamatory phrase): If only Dad could see me now!
    5. when or whenever: If it was raining, we had to play inside

    Who can tell one's feelings without it being told? "If" is a conjunction and it does not encourage anyone to enslave anyone. The fact that God watched them performed slavery practices without even saying specifically that they ought to NEVER ENSLAVED anyone does not warrants you or anyone else to say that God condoned the practice. Basic understanding of the context shows that God DOES NOT condone slavery. Slavery back then to slavery now is two different things and still it was not condoned. Do you condone the death of anyone be it by ailment or unfortunate encounters that result in death? You know death is a fact of life that is inevitable, but it does not mean that you condone it because you never did anything or even expressed your feelings about it. He coped with the problems of slavery and NOT condoned it. Being still on a matter that is immoral does not mean one condones it, trying to set fairness and justice in the midst of a problem does not mean one condones the problem.

    In order for you or anyone to know my feelings on any given matter I must verbalize it so it may be known, but one cannot just think my assistance to deal with the mess is my way of condoning it. I can help to nurse a thief's broken leg while he is trapped in his victim's home and still I am not condoning what he did. In every rule there are exceptions and English language is a tough language but it is also legible.

    You know I am grateful to all parents who still help their children even in their mess and God does just that. He goes down and helps us irrespective of how it might look to others.

    I am anything but a shallow minded person who looks at the surface of any challenges to call it whatever it looks like and not what it actually is. If I see red I call it red once it is red and not vermilion!
    We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality. Einstein

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose". Elliot

    Character is higher than intellect. ~Emerson

    “The best thing I have is the knife from Fatal Attraction. I hung it in my kitchen. It's my way of saying, Don't mess with me.”
    Glenn
    Great Spirits often encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds.
    Einstein

    :

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