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Thread: An answer to what really happens after death?

  1. #26
    Chapter1
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    You do realize that this is a democratic discussion forum and not a viva submission panel for a thesis on Nuclear Magnetic Pyloric sphincter analysis, right?

  2. #27
    Virtuoso Intellectual Pirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Jake View Post
    Removing various sections of the brain and looking for consciousness to go away is hardly identifying or clarifying its physicality or the nature of self. What is the subjective experience of a severely lobotomized patient? What is it like to be a horse? A bat? There are an experiences accompanying such perspectives, and they are not ones we are capable of understanding.
    Let's stem the tide of malice and pour into the wounded bossom of each other the balm of brotherly consolation.

    Sheer Philosophy can be used to debunk your reasoning. I like to call it "Yaa Asantewaa logic"

    On the outside, it appears to be "argument to ignorance", which means that something is supposed to be "true" or "false" based on the condition of us not knowing it(consciousness), such as "we don't know if there are unicorns", so it is possible that they exist. But your point also includes a second argument of the "classic circle-square", a logical contradiction can't exist. Perhaps it is better to avoid "imagine" and focus on contradiction?

    Is it a contradiction to imagine something "not existing"? The idea of something temporarily not existing can be problematic to strict realists, but we use non-existence as a reference to something that exists all the time. We understand that, (for most of us), the period known as the Renaissance occurred at a time which we didn't exist. It is possible to understand that we couldn't possibly have met anyone during that period because our non-existence contradicts this possibility. Just on these two steps, it argues that it is possible to imagine ourselves not existing, (but not imagining ourselves being consciously aware of not existing).

    It's the final leap that is the strangest: that something impossible mandates or supports the existence of its opposite. If I argue that "wet fire" is impossible, by definition, that doesn't imply that you are on fire or that you are wet, it merely dismisses the contradiction and leaves you in that state of "ignorance" about the existence of anything else. If you accept that the opposite of impossible situations mandates the existence of alternatives, you have an unlimited resource of contradictions mandating and unlimited alternatives.

    Your rebuttal of consciousness was a cheap shot, it breaks down like matter sipping strawberry when scrutinized philosophically.

  3. #28
    Virtuoso Kwame Nyame's Avatar
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    l read about a man who got confirmation there is life after death through dream study.He keeps a dream journal.A short time after the sudden death of his son,he met him in a dream setting.He died of titanus infection.ln the dream,his son told him a rusty nail in the corner of a threshold leading to one of the rooms in the house cause his death.
    Upon awakening from this dream,the man went straight to the spot shown in the dream and found the rusty nail.He took it off so no other person steps on it and contract the deadly poison.
    The dream also helped him to say a proper goodbye to his child.
    When my father fell ill and eventually died in Ghana,l was abroad and circumstances beyond my control prevented me from saying a proper goodbye.l study my dreams and keeps a dream journal.With the assistance of my dream teacher,l met my father in the dream state and we said our goodbyes.
    Without philosophical acrobatics many people through dream have personal experiences that points to life after death.
    Whiles your physical body sleeps on a bed in Jatokrom,Soul(your immaterial or higher self) may be having experiences in Anasikrom.You wake up and the memory of that experience is called a dream.
    The clarity or amount of the inner experience that reaches the human consciousness upon awakening depends on the mind filter or censor.
    Soul is not the intellect.lt is not the mind,emotion or physical shell.Soul(our real self) survives death.
    The science of seperating Soul from the body has been taught by teachers throughout the ages.
    Whe Socrates said..."man know thyself" he meant Soul.
    To me,realization of oneself as Soul is true science.Dream study can help us with this science.Studying your dreams can help you to start dreaming consciously and advance to Soul Journeys.All these can be achieved before physical death.
    You dont need a college degree.A dream journal and finding a Dream Master is all you need.
    ls there really life after death?Nobody can talk you into believing this.You can only find it out for yourself 1st hand.

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  5. #30
    Neophyte Raven Jake's Avatar
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    It definitely isn't a cheap shot, especially since I included a probable answer to it in my very first post.

    That said, this observation of a viewpoint which isn't mine is an obfuscation. You're not really sure what my view is but you're trying to argue against something. Be clear, concise and support your points. Of course you can win an argument against a viewpoint that is not my own but rather your construct. Your misinterpretation in no way represents my argument, as stated a several times, I agree with you. What exactly would you like me to address?

    The implication of stating that consciousness is in the left brain is that there is some creamy brain nougat which contains consciousness. The analogy forces the fact that you cannot point any location and say "there consciousness is." As we're talking about the beginning and end of the individual, I hardly see how it's irrelevant to clarify just what it is we're talking about. I answered the question of consciousness in a way that supports your point in my first post- but since that was not your answer, I assumed you had one of your own.

    My actual argument is what I opened with. If you want to talk philosophy, I'm saying your views are susceptible to the idea that naturalism and evolution are mutually exclusive notions, the idea that consciousness may not be physical and the first-mover argument. Again, I don't think any of them are true, as I rebutted them previously.

    You're having difficultly between what I actually think, and how I'm challenging the questionable foundations of your argument. I'm not throwing any curve balls. I'm saying your arguments jump from point to point without support or consistency. As I agree with them, I want them to have support and consistency.
    Last edited by Raven Jake; 8th March 2011 at 01:14 AM.

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    Virtuoso Intellectual Pirate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Jake View Post
    I agree with you. What exactly would you like me to address?

    "Cadit quaestio"

  7. #32
    Moderator Q' lypse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intellectual Pirate View Post
    "Cadit quaestio"
    no it doesn't. Support your argument. I'm loving this
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chapter1 View Post
    You do realize that this is a democratic discussion forum and not a viva submission panel for a thesis on Nuclear Magnetic Pyloric sphincter analysis, right?
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q' lypse View Post
    no it doesn't. Support your argument. I'm loving this
    ...

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intellectual Pirate View Post

    Essentially, what you experience after death is the same as what you experience before birth. Nothing.
    are you sure about that?
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

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    Moderator Q' lypse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Intellectual Pirate View Post
    ...
    lol
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

  12. #37
    malphazar
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    Raven, it seems you have an issue with conjured theories. Even the String Theory by Professor Stephen Hawking is a shot in the dark but he is closely tied to it and earnestly believes that there is a large element of reality to it. Although chapter1 does not have sufficient sources to back his argument, I do not see why he/she should since all these are suggestive theories and are likely to originate from his own unique (and rather bizarre) mind. I think what chapter1 failed to do however, is to sufficiently evaluate his theories critically. I for one believe his theory, particularly the 1D, 2D and 3D, has some crucial elements of new age science.

  13. #38
    Neophyte Raven Jake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malphazar View Post
    Raven, it seems you have an issue with conjured theories. Even the String Theory by Professor Stephen Hawking is a shot in the dark but he is closely tied to it and earnestly believes that there is a large element of reality to it. Although chapter1 does not have sufficient sources to back his argument, I do not see why he/she should since all these are suggestive theories and are likely to originate from his own unique (and rather bizarre) mind. I think what chapter1 failed to do however, is to sufficiently evaluate his theories critically. I for one believe his theory, particularly the 1D, 2D and 3D, has some crucial elements of new age science.
    This started out an entirely assumptive argument with zero support, and it still is. Saying what you think, without cause or reason weakens even the correct answer.
    Last edited by Raven Jake; 8th March 2011 at 06:24 PM.

  14. #39
    Super Moderator Pope Bitterz D'Alomo's Avatar
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    What do you guys make of the many accounts of near death experiences especially since majority of them talk about Heaven and eternal damnation ?

    Hallucination not included.
    Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow. ~Aesop

    Ignorance can be educated,drunkenness sobered,craziness medicated but there is no cure for STUPIDITY


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    Virtuoso Kwame Nyame's Avatar
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    Death is passing from one state of consciousness to another. Physical death is moving from a lower state of consciousness(human senses) to a higher state. You(Soul) in the process gains a deeper and broader view of things beyond physical reality. A new concept of life is born.
    To stop here will be theorising or mental gymnastics. You can actually practice the process of dying through creative techniques.
    This can be done through the preparatory experience of daily death.
    Here,I'm talking about a complete departure from verbal acrobatics. You are actually doing something to draw back the veil that separate our present human state of consciousness and the inner worlds or the planes of existence beyond our physical world.
    This can be compared to the daring who got into a boat to sail beyond the rock of Gibraltar at a time in our human history hen it was believed the earth was flat and anyone foolish enough to go beyond Gibraltar falls into an abyss; a bottomless pit.
    A mental debate about death can also be likened to those who stayed on land and feared sailing beyond the coast of Spain and Portugal at the time.
    Those who are saying there is nothing beyond death today are no different from the ancient people who believed beyond the Rock of Gibraltar was only a world of nothingness.
    It is only when we practice the act of dying daily through spiritual technique are we able to know death is only the door to the universal world.
    The bold and courageous who dared the rough Atlantic seas found out there are mighty continents; new worlds beyond Gibraltar and not a bottomless pit as was generally believed.
    Like them,you too will return to tell the tale. Some will believe.Others will ridicule.
    Columbus wasn't stupid. He brought back Native American Indians,tomatoes,potatoe,Avocado and things those at home never knew existed.
    In the same vein Spiritual Giants like Rama,Socrates,Pythagoras,Krishna,Hermes,Jesus,Sham us-i- Tabriz,Lai Tsi just to mention a few left us with ways to reach beyond the veil of death before physical death.
    Today, Harold Klemp,the Mahanta who is the Spiritual head of ECKANKAR is teaching Souls that are ready and willing how to leave the physical body while living through simple spiritual exercises.
    DIY is not always the best when it comes to tempering with consciousness. It is important to come under the guidance of a competent Instructor or Guide.
    It is only by crossing the bar of death that enable one to learn the truths of what lies beyond. You don't have to wait for physical death. You can do this today. You don't even have to leave your house.

    .
    "The seat of Soul in the waking state is located at a focus behind the two eyes,known variously to us as the Tisra Til,Third Eye,or the Tenth Door.,though it is perhaps most commonly referred to as the Spiritual Eye.
    To travel in the subtle,spiritual worlds,the mind nd Soul must first be collected and our attention fixed on this spot.
    It is the window between the physical and spiritual worlds.
    Sometimes the thousand currents of spiritual forces in the Astral Plane,which gives energy to and supports our Physical Plane,are called the thousand- petaled lotus,or the thousand -headed serpent. But to those who have not developed their Spiritual Eye,these forces may appear to be a single,spiritual flame.
    A pale,outer manifestation of this still exists in churches and temples where candles burn in imitation of the astral flame."
    - Paul Twitchell(The Spiritual Notebook)

    Like Columbus,you must sacrifice the safe shores of Europe to find the Ameicas. You must sacrifice the known to rech or learn about the unknown.
    You must sacrifice the world and your gross self before you can part the veil and view the lofty truths beyond.
    A competent Spiritual Guide is one with the ability to go through the gates of death. He can teach his students how to do this too in full consciousness under his guidance and protection.Together they explores worlds upon worlds beyond this gate.
    This is as a direct result of their practice of the Spiritual Exercises of ECK.
    Here is one of such technique taught me by my teacher that has worked for me.
    You find a quiet place where you will not be disturbed for about 20 minutes.
    You sit down in a chair or lie on a bed. The idea is to relax. Make sure you back is erect. Close your eyes and place gently your attention on the spot between your eye brows.
    For concentration,you can place the image of your Master or spiritual guide like Christ. You may also think of a situation or peron in your life that brings o much joy to you.
    Take a few deep breathes and on the out going breathe sing or chant the any sacred name of God you know.You can sing the name of your guide or holy word. You can sing HU which is a sacred and ancient name for God; AUM,Love,Jesus or any name or word that means something to you.
    With your attention fixed on the Spritual Eye,keep singing for about 15 minutes. Then gradually slow down to a stop on the singing. Spend another 5 or so minutes in quiet contemplation.
    You may see colours or various shades and brightness. You may hear sounds like thunder or the buzzing of bees. Do not let this frighten you. They are basically the two aspects of the Holy Spirit; Light and Sound.
    In fact the Light and Sound can come together in a matrix.
    This can take the form of a Saint.
    If your request is to find out what it is like to die or what happens after death,an answer will come to you when you practice this spiritual exercise with love and sincerity.
    This post and what is said here are mine and not that of any or official position. Mistakes are mine too.

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