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Thread: Idea exploration

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    Default Idea exploration

    idea:circumstances dont MATTER, only state of being MATTERS

    in order words this idea states that circumstances do not create matter, only your state of being create matter........

    so in that sense, the circumstance around u do not create ur experience ...... what and who you choose to be from moment to moment creates ur experience.....

    what do u guys have to share on this idea?
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

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    Super Moderator Pope Bitterz D'Alomo's Avatar
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    There are infinite probable realities that one could factor into this premise. If one bases their beliefs on everything being spiritual then in deed, the circumstances are ephemeral however one's experience as a spirit is the ultimate where conciousness is concerned.

    Others have the belief that circumstances although they don't matter play a major role in moulding character which in turn translates into the creation of experience.
    Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow. ~Aesop

    Ignorance can be educated,drunkenness sobered,craziness medicated but there is no cure for STUPIDITY


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    in order words this idea states that circumstances do not create matter, only your state of being create matter
    The validity of this question is wholly relative to probabilities already inherent in what it is predicated upon.

    Circumstances are undoubtedly byproducts of "being". Existence fuels experiences.

    Here is where it gets tricky. Can matter be matter without a state of being? And, are the things that determine a state of being finite or infinite? Alluding to any of the above invalidates the question brewing a paradox. So, i still don't get the question. I am confused!

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    Good good.... We are thinking here.... And neoxiang, I was not really asking a question but merely encouraging exploration of this idea as we r currently doing... I can see where the paradox attempts to brew and ultimately definitions play an important role..... The definitions of circumstances used here is along the lines of a situation or physical state of physical mind culled from form... In that sense I will say that circumstances are a reflection of state of beings in "physicality" but of course its validity is empirically subjective as u put it. Back to an important point in ur post --> belief ... Very important here to the extend that let's say that the absolute is that all are truly loved by "creation/prime mover" but one believes otherwise or believes in the "cruelty" of "existence" then that one is afforded the experience that belief begets overriding the actuality of how things really are.... That's profound

    Now can matter be matter without state of being? ... Well that is an interesting question... But I'm inclined to say that matter is energy conglomerated and vibrating at a very low frequency in a specific pattern (of course this is just 1 way to look at energy).... Now the specification of a particular pattern is where state of being comes in..... Just my take but good question
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pope Bitterz D'Alomo View Post
    There are infinite probable realities that one could factor into this premise. If one bases their beliefs on everything being spiritual then in deed, the circumstances are ephemeral however one's experience as a spirit is the ultimate where conciousness is concerned.

    Others have the belief that circumstances although they don't matter play a major role in moulding character which in turn translates into the creation of experience.
    i agree but can i be in a state of being say fear, and experience a physical circumstance in a manner that generates feelings inline with love?

    good question pope ....... let me refine my contemplations on ur response + neoxiang's ....
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

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    Godfather Fashion Yaa's Avatar
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    idea:circumstances dont MATTER, only state of being MATTERS
    *when I look at a person who is considered to be mad, I feel had it not been for circustances the present state of his mind would not be mangled, however, how do you explain productive mad people who are able to compose amazing music(Charles Mingus) or draw introspective paintings(van Gough). Could it be that they have perfected "the state of being"?

    in order words this idea states that circumstances do not create matter, only your state of being create matter........

    so in that sense, the circumstance around u do not create ur experience ...... what and who you choose to be from moment to moment creates ur experience.....
    I think this is the joy of the struggle in matter. Someone mentioned the spiritual realm as the highest point of conciousness, to which I agree however matter does not have the luxury of funtioning with the like minded so perhaps it is in that contracdition of life that produces the moment to moment experience.

    what do u guys have to share on this idea?

    great topic


    all go to the same place ;all come from dust and to the dust all return. who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?
    ecclesiastes 3:20-21 :-x

  7. #7

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    I will be back later with my thoughts.

  8. #8

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    excellent contribution mega

    bashar explained it thoroughly there ......

    awaiting ur thoughts on this though
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

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    Moderator Q' lypse's Avatar
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    What is all with these verbal acrobatics?

    The answer to the question(s) is the question itself.

    Isnít ones state of being the circumstances in which they are in?

    You are in whatever circumstance(s) because of your state of being. Iím going to take a big step here by going further on. We are all here in this world because weíve chosen to experience what we chose to experience. This might spark a number of circumstances, which to the not connected human being (ie billions of unconscious humans in bodies) may seem like the circumstance or situation they are in is creating their state of beingness, perhaps who they are. This is plausible but is one in the same. I donít know if this is making much sense here though.

    Letís stop the verbal philosophical approaches this thread has taken and break it down small small for the average man.

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    Super Moderator Pope Bitterz D'Alomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q' lypse View Post
    You are in whatever circumstance(s) because of your state of being. Iím going to take a big step here by going further on. We are all here in this world because weíve chosen to experience what we chose to experience. This might spark a number of circumstances, which to the not connected human being (ie billions of unconscious humans in bodies) may seem like the circumstance or situation they are in is creating their state of beingness, perhaps who they are. This is plausible but is one in the same. I donít know if this is making much sense here though.

    Letís stop the verbal philosophical approaches this thread has taken and break it down small small for the average man.
    To break it down for the average man. OK, When the drunk driver rundown the 10 year old kid paralysing the poor chap, would you say the kid "chose" to be paralysed or "chose" to be in that circumstance in order to experience that the state of paralysis ?
    Philosophical verbosity is not the bane here, digesting the point so as to churn diverse angles of perception is what i believe the thread starter is heading towards.

    Back to breaking it down for the average man this whole thing when summarized is this :when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Amen. lol
    Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow. ~Aesop

    Ignorance can be educated,drunkenness sobered,craziness medicated but there is no cure for STUPIDITY


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pope Bitterz D'Alomo View Post
    To break it down for the average man. OK, When the drunk driver rundown the 10 year old kid paralysing the poor chap, would you say the kid "chose" to be paralysed or "chose" to be in that circumstance in order to experience that the state of paralysis ?

    Pope, what makes you think the very life that lives in the boy did not choose to experience that kind of situation? What you are saying here is, there are accidents in life. Things happen randomly, right? The essence which is called Ďsoulí which inhabits every body is not paralysed. When the car you are driving gets flat tyres, the car cannot run but the driver can get out and walk away. Its the soul, that which lives in the boy, the body, chose to experience that life possibility.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pope Bitterz D'Alomo View Post
    Philosophical verbosity is not the bane here, digesting the point so as to churn diverse angles of perception is what i believe the thread starter is heading towards.
    Sure, but the mental acrobatics are too much, lol. Haaba


    Quote Originally Posted by Pope Bitterz D'Alomo View Post

    Back to breaking it down for the average man this whole thing when summarized is this :when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. Amen. lol
    And I ask, who planted the lemons in the first place?

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    Super Moderator Pope Bitterz D'Alomo's Avatar
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    So Q, the soul, which is not paralysed decided to go clubbing so as to have the boy's body suffer the mishap of paralysis right ? Will you then say that the circumstance this kid finds himself in, has nothing to do with the ordeal/experience in relation to the topic of discussion since the soul can take off whenever it feels to "experience that life possibility" ?

    Who planted the lemon you ask ?I also ask,Who made the "who" who planted the lemon ?
    Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow. ~Aesop

    Ignorance can be educated,drunkenness sobered,craziness medicated but there is no cure for STUPIDITY


  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Q' lypse View Post
    What is all with these verbal acrobatics?

    The answer to the question(s) is the question itself.

    Isnít ones state of being the circumstances in which they are in?

    You are in whatever circumstance(s) because of your state of being. Iím going to take a big step here by going further on. We are all here in this world because weíve chosen to experience what we chose to experience. This might spark a number of circumstances, which to the not connected human being (ie billions of unconscious humans in bodies) may seem like the circumstance or situation they are in is creating their state of beingness, perhaps who they are. This is plausible but is one in the same. I donít know if this is making much sense here though.

    Letís stop the verbal philosophical approaches this thread has taken and break it down small small for the average man.
    lol lol lol .... Q..... ideally this thread is based on the exploration of the idea at hand ..... verbal gymnastics is inevitable in this case ......
    but lets break it down small small .....


    state of being produces the particular emanations/frequencies/vibrations one sends out to the universe. someone in a state of being of lack/scarcity will experience the circumstances that embody that state of being ....... a person in a state of being of abundance will also experience circumstances that embody that state of being....

    there is a delay in physical reality due to "time", in the formless manifesting to form and so most of us will find ourselves in the present encountering some circumstances.... and because of the delay in manifestation of energy into form in most cases, we forget that our state of being in "the past"(as we view physical reality in 3d) moved us to the current present or in order words, sent us the "present" ..... forgetting this, one will react to the present and choose to perceive the present as having a cause rather than the individual being the cause.....
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pope Bitterz D'Alomo View Post
    So Q, the soul, which is not paralysed decided to go clubbing so as to have the boy's body suffer the mishap of paralysis right ? Will you then say that the circumstance this kid finds himself in, has nothing to do with the ordeal/experience in relation to the topic of discussion since the soul can take off whenever it feels to "experience that life possibility" ?

    Who planted the lemon you ask ?I also ask,Who made the "who" who planted the lemon ?
    are we entering the realm of verbal Olympics with the highlighted in red? .... lololol ....

    anyways the bold in black above is not totally clear to me, can u elaborate on it...

    now unto making lemonades with lemons......

    when u say when life give u lemons, make lemonade, this can lead to the idea that we are in physical life and physical life toys with us and throws watever it feels like throwing at us and its up to us to make something good or just something out of the "bones" "life" throws us for its amusing .....

    the definition of life to each individual is important here and i am under the current understanding that life happens through me rather than to me....
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pope Bitterz D'Alomo View Post
    So Q, the soul, which is not paralysed decided to go clubbing so as to have the boy's body suffer the mishap of paralysis right ?
    Experience is the key here. Whether the body is paralyzed or not, the soul is not affected. One day that body will die or wither away, the soul will not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pope Bitterz D'Alomo View Post
    Will you then say that the circumstance this kid finds himself in, has nothing to do with the ordeal/experience in relation to the topic of discussion since the soul can take off whenever it feels to "experience that life possibility" ?
    yeah chalay can, you make it clear here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pope Bitterz D'Alomo View Post
    Who planted the lemon you ask ?I also ask,Who made the "who" who planted the lemon ?
    What if I tell you 'the who' that planted the lemon is not created as the lemon which was created, what would you say? Energy cannot be created nor destroyed? Yes, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quophi Aletse View Post
    lol lol lol .... Q..... ideally this thread is based on the exploration of the idea at hand ..... verbal gymnastics is inevitable in this case ......
    but lets break it down small small .....


    state of being produces the particular emanations/frequencies/vibrations one sends out to the universe. someone in a state of being of lack/scarcity will experience the circumstances that embody that state of being ....... a person in a state of being of abundance will also experience circumstances that embody that state of being....

    there is a delay in physical reality due to "time", in the formless manifesting to form and so most of us will find ourselves in the present encountering some circumstances.... and because of the delay in manifestation of energy into form in most cases, we forget that our state of being in "the past"(as we view physical reality in 3d) moved us to the current present or in order words, sent us the "present" ..... forgetting this, one will react to the present and choose to perceive the present as having a cause rather than the individual being the cause.....
    EXACTLY, although my agreement might sound vague and confusing to others. That which is experiencing whatever circumstances or situation that we are calling state of being knows before hand the situation which it is experiencing is a possibility in the life it is living.

    Suppose there is a game that can make you feel. Some kind of virtual reality that is almost real. If I'm playing some kind of vgame, say Halo, and I the user make a certain move taking a path which is not normally taken by the average player, I must expect certain visual, creatures that I haven't encountered before or whatever might come through on that road pop up, because I am aware the game was created in such a way that, any path taken will have its own creatures and difficulties. But to the animated player I'm using or operating, it is a **** world or path, I am experiencing the game through this virtual game world. I don't know if this is making any sense. In this case, my state of being is the path I took which is bringing all the difficulties, situations, creatures.

    If you've watched the movie 'Gamer', you might have an idea of what I'm talking about.

    The verbal and mental acrobatics have just taken another turn. lol

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    I think we are harping on torn strings here. As humans, we are not even reasonably certain of where consciousness comes from, so how can we imply with certainty that our perception of what constitutes state of being is valid?

    Matter takes a different form at the point of "singularity" where the laws of physics break down, ultimately shattering all pre held conception of what matter is. They are reduced to mere strings vibrating in the universe.

    To add more twist to the mist, at the subatomic particle level, on the plane of "entanglement", matter can be in two places at the same time. "state" becomes nothing, it only resides in the mind of the observer.

    Mind over Matter. Free your mind!
    Last edited by Neo; 2nd November 2010 at 08:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    I think we are harping on torn strings here. As humans, we are not even reasonably certain of where consciousness comes from,
    But I am not human, I am not my body. But if I'm stuck with my body, cut off from who I am, yes, I will be clueless.


    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    To add more twist to the mist, at the subatomic particle level, on the plane of "entanglement", matter can be in two places at the same time. "state" becomes nothing, it only resides in the mind of the observer.
    Now you hit the nail right on the head
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    I think we are harping on torn strings here. As humans, we are not even reasonably certain of where consciousness comes from, so how can we imply with certainty that our perception of what constitutes state of being is valid?
    ...... interesting ....... is the origin of consciousness even an applicable question in physicality .... for example "how old is consciousness" is an inapplicable question because age exist within consciousness or consciousness transcends the boundaries of age making the question inapplicable(something like that) .....

    on perception of state of being and its validity..... all perceptions are valid that's why they exist and can be chosen .... i see what u saying though but validity of perceptions is going on a tangent ...... but i do agree, the thread is getting messy with words floating everywhere .... lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Matter takes a different form at the point of "singularity" where the laws of physics break down, ultimately shattering all pre held conception of what matter is. They are reduced to mere strings vibrating in the universe.
    exactly ..... matter returning to the formless ....... now what determines the pattern in vibrating strings that translates into form or matter? the observer ...... and that is where the observer's state of being which is basically the observer's vibration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    To add more twist to the mist, at the subatomic particle level, on the plane of "entanglement", matter can be in two places at the same time. "state" becomes nothing, it only resides in the mind of the observer.
    oh, state of being im referring to is not a mental faculty....... true feelings do not reside in the mind .... will u say feelings reside in ur mind? ...... anyways can u elaborate on entanglement rendering state as nothing ......
    Last edited by Quophi Aletse; 11th November 2010 at 10:57 PM.
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

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    Quantum entanglement, also called the quantum non-local connection, is a property of certain states of a quantum system containing two or more distinct objects, in which the information describing the objects is inextricably linked such that performing a measurement on one immediately alters properties of the other, even when separated at arbitrary distances. Specifically, such a system is said to be in an entangled state if it cannot be written as the tensor product of its constituent subsystems. This discovery posed a serious conceptual challenge to physicists of the day, because faster-than-light influences were assumed to be prohibited by special relativity. In that framework, it was thought superluminal effects would lead to causal contradictions because a change of reference frame can reverse the order of the events.

    source: wikipedia

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    Quote Originally Posted by neoxiang View Post
    Quantum entanglement, also called the quantum non-local connection, is a property of certain states of a quantum system containing two or more distinct objects, in which the information describing the objects is inextricably linked such that performing a measurement on one immediately alters properties of the other, even when separated at arbitrary distances. Specifically, such a system is said to be in an entangled state if it cannot be written as the tensor product of its constituent subsystems. This discovery posed a serious conceptual challenge to physicists of the day, because faster-than-light influences were assumed to be prohibited by special relativity. In that framework, it was thought superluminal effects would lead to causal contradictions because a change of reference frame can reverse the order of the events.

    source: wikipedia
    im familiar with entanglement in Quantum Physics but i did not follow how the phenomenon of entanglement renders state of being as nothing ....

    can u elaborate on that as i find it interesting and my pondering on it results in a null at the moment
    Last edited by Quophi Aletse; 11th November 2010 at 07:42 PM.
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

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    Moderator Q' lypse's Avatar
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    the verbal acrobatics just turned up a gear, kai!
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

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    Indeed, another verbal acrobatic exploration hell-bent on hitting another cul-de-sac.

    Yaa and Pope's contribution were overlooked, but i believe they provided thorough perspectives on the idea both socially and psychologically.

    My point on entanglement was merely supplementary, to highlight the intricate dimensions your question or idea posed. I sought to explore the idea scientifically, hence the particle physics derivatives.

    To answer your question...
    Quophi: i did not follow how the phenomenon of entanglement renders state of being as nothing
    Quophi: in order words this idea states that circumstances do not create matter, only your state of being create matter
    It is that simple Quophi. Entanglement tells us that matter can exist in two places at the same time.

    Secondly, it also tells us based on the wiki extract above that, Matter when separated at arbitrary distances can alter the properties of one another. This clearly indicates that at the subatomic particle level matter has no state. The conditions of matter are determined by variables not even present in their current sphere.

    In this sense, how can a state of being create matter? It is just impossible or maybe i don't get it, which is why i found this idea exploration topic invalid from the get go.

    An idea can be an empirical falsity and a factual presupposition at the same time, but in the end WE are just going to be reduced to verbal acrobats going round and round in circles, harping on an idea that places hide and seek at its core.

    Anyhow, keep the topic alive and keep it coming. I am beginning to enjoy it, and who knows where we gonna find ourselves.
    Last edited by Neo; 12th November 2010 at 03:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fashion Yaa View Post

    so in that sense, the circumstance around u do not create ur experience ...... what and who you choose to be from moment to moment creates ur experience.....
    Thanks to Neo's post, I went back and read your points. Do you know that you answered the question. How should I put it? Your disagreement is actually in agreement with your disagreement. lol

    What you choose to be is your state being being, isn't it? Does it matter if its a moment (like Carpe diem, the latin m0mentum) or not? Isn't the moment your state of being?
    When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important.
    .........Jiddu Krishnamurti

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
    Indeed, another verbal acrobatic exploration hell-bent on hitting another cul-de-sac.

    Yaa and Pope's contribution were overlooked, but i believe they provided thorough perspectives on the idea both socially and psychologically.

    My point on entanglement was merely supplementary, to highlight the intricate dimensions your question or idea posed. I sought to explore the idea scientifically, hence the particle physics derivatives.

    To answer your question...




    It is that simple Quophi. Entanglement tells us that matter can exist in two places at the same time.

    Secondly, it also tells us based on the wiki extract above that, Matter when separated at arbitrary distances can alter the properties of one another. This clearly indicates that at the subatomic particle level matter has no state. The conditions of matter are determined by variables not even present in their current sphere.

    In this sense, how can a state of being create matter? It is just impossible or maybe i don't get it, which is why i found this idea exploration topic invalid from the get go.

    An idea can be an empirical falsity and a factual presupposition at the same time, but in the end WE are just going to be reduced to verbal acrobats going round and round in circles, harping on an idea that places hide and seek at its core.

    Anyhow, keep the topic alive and keep it coming. I am beginning to enjoy it, and who knows where we gonna find ourselves.
    boss i understand u perfectly ..... matter can be two places at one ...... true .......

    also matter and energy are interchangeable .......

    also energy supersedes matter......

    so the question is what catalyst transforms the waves into patterns which structures matter?

    the observer ....... now observers transform the same field of potential into different patterns ....... what constitute this ....

    believe systems, core beliefs, definitions, core concepts.......

    what are these things above ...... a mental state, a state of mind that represents a state of being(soul plane) .......

    if im thinking about revenge, hate, hurting another, etc it tells me that im not definitely operating within the energy of love.......

    now what constitute state of being ........ it is a choice made in the human heart(the seat of the soul) .......

    u can think ur way from one state of being to another state ........ affirmations, replacing unwanted thoughts with wanted ones, say negative with positive etc ........

    the soul is all of it ....... the so called good and bad ....... u cannot have any experience, thus translate the waves into patterns without passing through the soul plane .......

    now that is my personal understanding from internalization ........


    if feel creeping in of subjective right or wrong here which are completely irrelevant to the original purpose of this thread ....... which is merely to explore the idea personally and also give others the chance to also do the same ... and in such explorations verbal acrobatics is imminent after all it is the mind we are using here to integrate and understand what the hearts has known for eons ... more like brainstorming ... i just did not follow the connection with matter being at two places and rendering state of being nothing.....

    but its all good ..... i see where u coming from now
    Last edited by Quophi Aletse; 16th November 2010 at 05:05 PM.
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

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