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Thread: Where did God come from?

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    Virtuoso Intellectual Pirate's Avatar
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    Default Where did God come from?

    Where did God come from? Exploring the idea of the first creator.

    This argument presuposes the existence of God. In that presupositon, how can we account for God's existence?

    I)By chance forces, pre-existing matter/energy in the universe came together to form God.

    A)This would mean that God evolved by natural/physical processes.

    1)If natural forces brought God to be then He would therefore owe His attributes to chance forces. This would mean God could have been very different from who He is now. Had he evolved differently, under different circumstances, his attributes could have been- unrighteous, unholy, unloving and not good, full of deciet and trechory, taking pleasure in the suffering of man instead of being righteous, holy loving, good honest and trustworthy and taking pleasure in the prosperity of His children.

    2)If physical/natural forces brought God to be then He would be vulnerable to physical/natural forces. Since His existence is contingient on these natural /physical forces then He would be subject to the laws that govern them. The laws of physics would bare weight on Him. The law of entropy and the law of conservation of energy would have an effect on Him. As these natural/physical forces brought Him into existence they can also cause Him to not exist. He therfore would not be a necessary being but a contigent being who can either exist or not exist, and may not exist tomorrow, then He is not eternal.

    B)If natural/physical forces brought God into existence then these forces are beyond His control.

    1)If forces exist that can influence God then He is not omnipotent. If there are forces that are beyond His control, and if these forces existed before Him and are the cause of His being then they would be beyond His control, then He can not be omnipotent.

    2)If these forces are beyond His control, (they happened without Him before and there is no reason they do not continue to happen without Him) then they can and have occured without His knowledge. Therefore He can not be omnipotent.

    3)In order to have all knowledge God would have to continually learn of the things that happen beyond His immediate knowledge and control. He would therefore need to continualy change and groe in knowledge. This would mean that God could not be perfect since in order to be perfect He can not change. If He changes from one state to another and the latter is perfect then the former must have been less than perfect. But if He must learn of things in the future in order to know all things then there will always be a change from lesser to greater and perfection can never be achieved. Not being eternal, having all power, having all knowledge and being always in a state of change we must conclude that God is not perfect in any of His attributes.

    C)God being a naturally occuring being is therefore bound by the laws that governed the events bringing Him to be would be governed by the principal that an effect can not be greater than its cause. Simply put, something not possesed can not be given.

    1)This would mean that none of His creatures could claim to have those attribute God does not possess

    2)If any of His creatures can rightly claim to have the attributes of perfection, eternal life, omniscience and omnipotence then God must not have evolved by natural/physical forces. The only other option is that He is self-existent, existing independently of natural/physical forces- i.e. the universe itself.

  2. #2

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    I read a book by Norman L. Geisler and Frank Turek called "I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist".This book is a valuable aid to those interested in examining the reasonableness of the existence and origins of God.

    We know that from nothing, nothing comes. So, if there were ever a time when there was absolutely nothing in existence, then nothing would have ever come into existence. But things do exist. Therefore, since there could never have been absolutely nothing, something had to have always been in existence. God is the uncaused Being that caused everything else to come into existence.God is not in the category of things that are created or caused. God is uncaused and uncreated—He simply exists.

  3. #3
    Bipolar neoxiang's Avatar
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    Origin of God overrides logic. God created thought. If you want to know how God came to be, create a new mode of perception that is independent of God.

  4. #4
    BBoy T
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    Quote Originally Posted by neoxiang View Post
    Origin of God overrides logic. God created thought. If you want to know how God came to be, create a new mode of perception that is independent of God.
    How does one
    create a new mode of perception that is independent of God
    when God in essence is omnipresent,omniscient aand omnipotent ?

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    Bipolar neoxiang's Avatar
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    Exactly my point. It is IMPOSSIBLE.

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    Moderator Q' lypse's Avatar
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    If you use your mind, you will never understand that 'which is'.

    In the numbers, I saw a lot of physical references. Is there anything like solidity? Is there anything that is physical? Even science will tell you NO.

    What makes something physical?

    Before one jumps off to understand something, or describe something, lets say a mental construct like GOD, let that person ask himself/herself, what a human being is, what he or she is first. Do you know who are, do you know what you are? Stick to yourself first, before going beyond yourself!

  7. #7

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    where and origin dwell in physicality...... applying physicality concepts to essences that physicality emerges from, in order for such physical concepts as where, and origin is inapplicable.
    statistics are what other people have chosen to make real.

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    Bipolar Neo's Avatar
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    Bump!
    Agent Provocateur

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